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The Difference Between an Alcoholic and a Drug Addict?

I'm a recovering alcoholic. When I would refrain from drugs, not knowing I was an alcoholic, I would think alcohol was ok for me. The results were always the same - once drunk, which is where I always ended my drinking I would start drugs again and always end in jail.

I was reading the "Dr. Opinion" in the big book of AA and it talks of a phenomenon of craving which exactly describes my drug use the craving was all explained to me. My question is am I still an alcoholic? I identify as an alcoholic because AA has absolutely saved my life ... I've been through NA but didn't get the understanding like I do in AA.

I've heard it said there is a difference, but I believe alcohol is where it all started for me so am I being honest in identifying as alcoholic even though I don't remember having the craving for alcohol as much as I did for drugs?






Answer



There is no real different between alcoholic and drug addict, other than the substance of choice being different. The disease/illness - addiction - is the same. To a drug addict, alcohol is simply another drug - and that's why if you suffer from an addiction (alcohol or drugs), cross-subsidization does not work because you'll simply find another substance to replace that which got you addicted in the first place.

Therefore for an addict, abstinence from all habit or dependence forming substances (including alcohol and all drugs) is the only way. So I wouldn't worry too much about trying to put yourself under the correct label - you suffer from the disease of addiction first and foremost.

If you identify more strongly as alcoholic and prefer using AA as your program of recovery, that's okay. It sounds like alcohol played a large part in your drug addiction too, so whether you remember the cravings being more intense for the drugs shouldn't matter. Keep doing what works for you - and if that's AA, then keep at it.

Many people at AA have also got drug addiction backgrounds, so the position you're in isn't unique. Yes AA wants people who attend to specifically have a problem relating to alcohol (not just drugs) and to refer to themselves as alcoholics, so that others, especially newcomers can identify with them.

But since alcohol has been such a large part of your addiction and where it all started for you, you don't need to feel uncomfortable or unsure of yourself when you call yourself Alcoholic at AA meetings. In truth through, alcohol and drugs are simply different substances that can result in the disease called 'Addiction.'

Hope that helps.

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starstarstarstarstar 		Identifying as an Alcoholic NEW
by: Micky

OK, read these passionate comments. so let's look at this.
I'm an Alcoholic, and yes also used some drugs through 27 years of drinking, so let's see who IDENTIFIES with some of this, identification is after all what we REALLY seek and hold onto both initially and for comfort during our tough days in our respective meetings:
When I pick up a drink I can't stop, the minute I have had one all I can think about is the next drink. If I'm at a Bar I will order the next one when my glass is still half full, because I just have to keep going. When I have "a" drink I get blind drunk every time, I just can't stop that from happening, God only knows the amount of times tried and methods I used to just have a drink and not get drunk!In my early days of drinking I worked in an office, on Fridays we would go out for lunch and were allowed to have a couple of drinks. BUT, when we got back to the office from lunch I couldn't work, I was restless, I just couldn't concentrate on anything at all I just got nothing done at all. I soon learnt that the only way to settle down was to have another drink! I was fine before lunch, I found that it was easier to just have a cup of coffee at the lunch and just stick to drinking after work so I could drink the way I HAD to.In the big book this is called the "Phenomenon of Craving". It only happens once an Alcoholic consumes alcohol.
It seems to me that there would be a lot of dead drug addicts if this happened to them when they use. Think about it: a Heroin addict that has a hit and then finds they are helplessly COMPELLED to have another and another and another.....they would die.
No there is a very real physical difference in our addictions, they are not "just the same".

One of the most common things you will here an Alcoholic say in meetings is that they had know idea that the were an Alcoholic, I just thought I had life problems - this is what we call "Insanity" Are you going to tell me that a Heroin addict used for 27 years and didn't know they were an addict? Is that what you here in NA meetings?
The 12 step recovery helps addictive problems by relieving us of the mental obsession, but in meeting, particularly for newcomers, identification is what keeps us coming back.

"We of Alcoholics Anonymous could not be all things to all men, nor should
we try." 12 and 12, Page 157

This simply means for all 12 step fellowships we should stick to what we individually do best.
We are not talking about a social club here, these meeting serve a practical and life saving purpose for all of us weather they be NA, AA, GA, SA or OA. Where IDENTIFICATION is concerned one size doesn't always fit all.
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starstarstarstarstar 		Come on Haters NEW
by: Anonymous

You are right. Drug addicts are a bit smarter. You see many alcoholics that get into drugs. Drug addicts becoming drunks. Not so much. Drug addicts have a better ability to regulate. How many drug addicts do you know that are stupid enough to drink a two liter bottle of vodka and 30 beer. I know alcoholics that do. Quite frankly, drugs are less of a societal evil. If they were not illegal and regulated by the government (like alcohol), it turns out that alcohol does a shitload more damage to your body, affecting nearly every major organ.

The reason addicts (opiates) don't have a high success rate is that we keep ourselves from hitting the kind of rock bottom you do. Anybody will change after poisoning themselves nearly to death, but what about when your addiction does very little harm, at least visibly.
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starstarstarstarstar 		Come on Haters NEW
by: Anonymous

You are right. Drug addicts are a bit smarter. You see many alcoholics that get into drugs. Drug addicts becoming drunks. Not so much. Drug addicts have a better ability to regulate. How many drug addicts do you know that are stupid enough to drink a two liter bottle of vodka and 30 beer. I know alcoholics that do. Quite frankly, drugs are less of a societal evil. If they were not illegal and regulated by the government (like alcohol), it turns out that alcohol does a shitload more damage to your body, affecting nearly every major organ.

The reason addicts (opiates) don't have a high success rate is that we keep ourselves from hitting the kind of rock bottom you do. Anybody will change after poisoning themselves nearly to death, but what about when your addiction does very little harm, at least visibly.
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starstarstarstarstar 		Another voice NEW
by: Steve

I hate to see some of the really hurtful things that are said in the name of recovery. We have enough folks putting us down without adding to the fire. I am one of those dinosaurs mentioned in the last post. Other than a little pot every once in a while, I was just a drunk. Not saying I don't have the potential to be a drug addict, but I can only speak to my experience--which is exactly what the AA/NA philosophy is founded on. Our shared experiences. I cannot share "language of the heart" with a drug addict because I have never had his/her experience. I have no fear that AA is going to implode because of this issue. I do have a fear that an awful lot of drug addicts (who are not alcoholic but mandated to AA meetings by treatment centers/courts)will come to AA long enough to think "I'm not like these people" and will be off running again. That's why is it so important for AA to be a source of recovery for alcoholics, and NA for drug addicts. I harbor absolutely no ill will against drug addicts. If they are also alcoholic, I will welcome them to my AA Home Group with open arms. but lets quit killing folks by convincing them that AA is the cure for everyone because it's just not so. And for the sake of the entire recovering community, please stop pitting one group against another. It doesn't help anything. Nothing wrong with constructive, passionate arguing,but please keep it civil. Thanks.
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starstarstarstarstar 		AA's think they are to good to be addicts but..... NEW
by: Anonymous

It's the same thing. Alcohol is a drug but don't tell the hard core AA Nazi's this. Their big egos can't handle the thought of being a lowly addict. Get yourself out of this never ending perverted 12 step ritual. I was an addict. My drug of choice was vodka. I say "was" because I refuse to negatively label myself for life. I became physically addicted to alcohol while self medicating for depression and anxiety. I spent several months in AA because I was recovering and that was the "thing to do" right----WRONG! These are the most judgemental people I've ever met. "Don't do others inventory" (Unless they deviate from the program then they will die or worse be DRY DRUNKS.}
I came to realize that I'm not powerless. I can't spend the rest of my life dwelling on my past dysfunctions. You can't forget or be careless but you don't need to dwell on it. There is so much to live for but you need to get over yourself. AA's are weak souls and perpetual victims of the disease they made up. This makes them feel better as they do not have to feel responsible for the bad choices they've made.
The profit Mr. Bill was also addicted to caffeine, nicotine, sex,(look up step 13) and liked to experiment with LSD. He finally smoked himself to death. An Addict is an Addict.
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starstarstarstarstar 		AA's think they are to good to be addicts but..... NEW
by: Anonymous

It's the same thing. Alcohol is a drug but don't tell the hard core AA Nazi's this. Their big egos can't handle the thought of being a lowly addict. Get yourself out of this never ending perverted 12 step ritual. I was an addict. My drug of choice was vodka. I say "was" because I refuse to negatively label myself for life. I became physically addicted to alcohol while self medicating for depression and anxiety. I spent several months in AA because I was recovering and that was the "thing to do" right----WRONG! These are the most judgemental people I've ever met. "Don't do others inventory" (Unless they deviate from the program then they will die or worse be DRY DRUNKS.}
I came to realize that I'm not powerless. I can't spend the rest of my life dwelling on my past dysfunctions. You can't forget or be careless but you don't need to dwell on it. There is so much to live for but you need to get over yourself. AA's are weak souls and perpetual victims of the disease they made up. This makes them feel better as they do not have to feel responsible for the bad choices they've made.
The profit Mr. Bill was also addicted to caffeine, nicotine, sex,(look up step 13) and liked to experiment with LSD. He finally smoked himself to death. An Addict is an Addict.
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starstarstarstarstar 		AA's think they are to good to be addicts but..... NEW
by: Anonymous

It's the same thing. Alcohol is a drug but don't tell the hard core AA Nazi's this. Their big egos can't handle the thought of being a lowly addict. Get yourself out of this never ending perverted 12 step ritual. I was an addict. My drug of choice was vodka. I say "was" because I refuse to negatively label myself for life. I became physically addicted to alcohol while self medicating for depression and anxiety. I spent several months in AA because I was recovering and that was the "thing to do" right----WRONG! These are the most judgemental people I've ever met. "Don't do others inventory" (Unless they deviate from the program then they will die or worse be DRY DRUNKS.}
I came to realize that I'm not powerless. I can't spend the rest of my life dwelling on my past dysfunctions. You can't forget or be careless but you don't need to dwell on it. There is so much to live for but you need to get over yourself. AA's are weak souls and perpetual victims of the disease they made up. This makes them feel better as they do not have to feel responsible for the bad choices they've made.
The profit Mr. Bill was also addicted to caffeine, nicotine, sex,(look up step 13) and liked to experiment with LSD. He finally smoked himself to death. An Addict is an Addict.
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starstarstarstarstar 		AA's think they are to good to be addicts but..... NEW
by: Anonymous

It's the same thing. Alcohol is a drug but don't tell the hard core AA Nazi's this. Their big egos can't handle the thought of being a lowly addict. Get yourself out of this never ending perverted 12 step ritual. I was an addict. My drug of choice was vodka. I say "was" because I refuse to negatively label myself for life. I became physically addicted to alcohol while self medicating for depression and anxiety. I spent several months in AA because I was recovering and that was the "thing to do" right----WRONG! These are the most judgemental people I've ever met. "Don't do others inventory" (Unless they deviate from the program then they will die or worse be DRY DRUNKS.}
I came to realize that I'm not powerless. I can't spend the rest of my life dwelling on my past dysfunctions. You can't forget or be careless but you don't need to dwell on it. There is so much to live for but you need to get over yourself. AA's are weak souls and perpetual victims of the disease they made up. This makes them feel better as they do not have to feel responsible for the bad choices they've made.
The profit Mr. Bill was also addicted to caffeine, nicotine, sex,(look up step 13) and liked to experiment with LSD. He finally smoked himself to death. An Addict is an Addict.
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starstarstarstarstar 		To Ignorance:) NEW
by: Anonymous

I am soooo happy to have read your share. Right on !!!! Nice to here someone just putting it out there. Telling it like it is. I don't feel so alone... like I'm the one who has to change my AA program to accommodate the drug addict.... Lol. Yes....... No squatters rights for the drug addict coming to AA and screwing with the heads of real alcoholics trying to get sober.
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starstarstarstarstar 		Ignorance NEW
by: Anonymous

I am a real alcoholic. I would rather put a bullet through my head than inject a needle with heroin in it into my skin. Stay the fuck out of our meetings.
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starstarstarstarstar 		To "watered down"
by: Anonymous

We have not "lost" AA. The AA program is still there. It is the people that are lost. The addict going to AA meetings to get "clean" is a lost soul. At best he or she might be a type 1 or type 2 alcoholic, but those types have not yet lost the choice in drink. They can quit drinking if there is good reason to do so. I think the "real" drug addict does better with NA and or religion. So take heart AA is alive and well if you are a real alcoholic. We seek each other out:)
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starstarstarstarstar 		Watered down
by: Anonymous

It's a shame AA has become so convoluted. So many real alcoholics are dying everyday. There is no more common problem, common solution in an AA meeting today. Drugs are always addressed in every meeting. We have lost AA.
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starstarstarstar 		AA Traditions
by: Anonymous

If an individual only used drugs when they drank, it is said that they are alcoholics and if they used drugs and went to alcohol, only because of the cost, then they would be considered drug addicts. AA Tradition 3 states you may be an AA members if you are having a problem with alcohol and Tradition 5 further addresses that our singleness of purpose is to carry the message to the alcoholic who still suffers. Therefore a drug addict can not do this. Bill W has stated in the Grapevine that a "non-alcoholic" can not become an AA member. Also, drug addicts/those who do not have a desire to stop drinking can not attend closed meetings of AA, but are welcome to open meetings as is their spouse.
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starstarstarstarstar 		And another drunk
by: Anonymous

I think that the difference between the alcoholic and the addict is simple.... Alcoholics cant control alcohol and addicts cant control drugs.
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starstarstarstarstar 		Just another drunk
by: Anonymous

Wow.... Crazy talk on this site! Birds and lizards??? I too am an alcoholic and i go to AA meetings to listen and talk about alcoholism. They talk alot about the fatality of this disease. Why would anyone want to destroy the chances of a newcomer by talking about problems other then alcohol?
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starstarstarstarstar 		Dear Just a Drunk
by: Anonymous

Dear Friend:

Thank you for your contribution. It provides another opportunity to dispel the confusion over this issue.

You mention that you don't know what the difference is between and alcoholic and an addict. The problem lies in the question itself. It is based on false assumptions and therefore has no direct answer.

Ask yourself this: What is the difference between a rabbit and a mammal? What is the difference between a snake and a reptile? What is the difference between a sparrow and a bird? How does one even answer such a question?

The only really valid answer is that it's a matter of category and subcategory. "Addict" is a category. You and I are in the subcategory "alcoholic." As addicts of the alcoholic variety, we have a great deal in common with other addicts; much more, perhaps, than you realize.

Ideally, you will come away from this with the new understanding that we simultaneously alcoholics and also addicts. That doesn't mean that we are two different things. A tuna is also a fish, but that's not two separate and distinct things, is it? One is part of the other, no?

By the way, it only takes addiction to one drug to be a drug addict. If, for you, that one drug is alcohol, then that alone is plenty!
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starstarstarstarstar 		Just a drunk
by: Anonymous

I agree that the original question has been lost somewhere in the discussion, but I think it's an important discussion to have. I'm not sure what the difference between a drunk a an addict is. I've never been addicted to anything other than alcohol so I have no frame of reference. I can tell you that I've taken pain medication for some health problems and could not for the life of me understand why anyone would want to be that zonked out all the time. Therein lies the discussion. I have never told anyone they could not come to AA. But I will tell them that if they are not alcoholic they will not be able to relate to our shared experiences (as Bill describes them)and will one day listen to us and say "I'm not like that" and then who knows where they end up. Any drug addict is welcome in AA as long as they are also alcoholic. But you can't have a spiritual experience if you're living a lie and if you're saying you're alcoholic but really don't think you are, that's living a lie. When I go to an AA meeting I need to be able to relate to what's being said at the podium and that means not only what they feel, but also their actual experiences. See, when someone talks about going to a crack house or putting a needle in they're arm, I'm thinking "Why not just go down to the bar and get a drink?" I don't get it because I've never done it. It doesn't mean I'm better or worse---I'm just not a drug addict-----and please spare me the lecture that a drug is a drug is a drug. Alcohol does not react to the human brain like a lot of other drugs do. It is different. It's only treatment centers that operate that way and to tell you the truth I think they are killing lots of drug addicts cause they treat everyone the same---it's cheaper. So, let's not have any more harsh words from either side. Fear is residing in the remarks somewhere. But, for those that think that the doors of AA should be flung open to all regardless of whether they are alcoholic or not, I apologize in advance for vehemently defending and protecting the 12 Traditions of AA which clearly states that primary purpose is about alcoholism. I would also do the same for NA, OA, etc if I was a memeber of those groups. I am one of those dinosaurs who only drank. But based on everything that has been written by Bill and Bob and the other co-founders, a guy just like me has the right to expect to hear about drinking at an AA meeting. How else could I relate and find the solution to my problem?
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starstarstarstarstar 		What is the difference?
by: Anonymous

The original question was, more or less, what is the difference between an alcoholic and a drug addict?

That's a very difficult question to answer. That's because it's the wrong question.

The right question is, what is the relationship between alcoholic and addict? That one's easy to answer. It's a matter of category. To wit:

Alcoholic is to addict what horse is to mammal.
What lizard is to reptile.
What apple is to fruit.
What grasshopper is to insect.

What is the difference between alky and addict? Well, what's the difference between lizard and reptile?

Lizard is a variety of reptile. If you're a horse, then you're a mammal, period, nothing to argue about. Apple is a kind of fruit, right, or do you want to argue the point?

The difference between tuna and fish? Come on, you know the answer already!

An alcoholic is a drug addict, period. It should be no surprise when an addict swallows alcohol, smokes pot and snorts meth or coke, all at the same time. It should be no surprise, either, when an addict settles primarily, or even solely, on a single drug such as alcohol.

Now that that's settled, we can get on with the business of recovery from addiction. :-)
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starstarstarstarstar 		Live and Let Live!
by: Anonymous Yoda

First of all I want to make it very clear to everyone who is reading this, the Big Book of Alcoholics Anonymous was written in 1939, and the traditions were formulated around that time. It is now 2012, I know for a fact that drugs were not as prevelant in 1939 as they are now. I do not think that Bill W. or any of the other co-founders of AA thought that drugs would be as easily accessable as they are today. I also don't think, considering the spiritual principles that AA practices, that Bill W and the co-founders of AA would deny anyone an opportunity to experience their solution just because they did drugs as well as drink.
I go to AA because that is where I found the solution to my Alcoholism AND Drug Addiction, whatever you want to call it. When I share or speak at an AA meeting I introduce myself as an Alcoholic, I do that out of respect for AA. However, I also mention that drugs played a big part in my story, and honestly over half the people I have seen in my two years in AA, also had drug problems. I try my best to only mention my drinking, because I am an alcoholic, sometimes drugs come up though.
Ask yourself if it would be right to tell someone who was co-dependent, another malady, that they weren't allowed to mention their character defects because it is an AA meeting. That would be pretty messed up.
People need to stop being so close-minded, and thats what I think the problem is with people who identify as only Alcoholic, that have problems with people talking about drugs in an AA meeting. Its all ego, pride, and downright NOT spiritual principles.
Anyone who wants the AA solution in their life should be allowed to have it, PERIOD!!! :-)

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star 		A Newcomer Now a Newleaver
by: Anonymous

You know i just happened upon this thread while reading about addiction and alcoholism on the internet and felt like i had to comment.

While i understand the premise that those who are alcoholic are putting forth in regards to the separation of the two fellowships, the small-mindedness , hostility and lack of empathy on display here by alcoholics is truly shocking.

Your doing a disservice to your organization and spiritual principles in general. I would never return to this site and have literally questioned exploring a.a. ,as i had in the back of my mind as i surfed . You`ve lost a potential member in me. If this is any example of the kind of person i could hope to become - you can keep it all to yourselves .Thanks for sharing the message .Keep coming back indeed.
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starstarstarstarstar 		more
by: Anonymous

Please read "Problems Other Than Alcohol". If you still feel the same way about drugs in AA after reading it, you are obviously one of those people who think that AA should open the doors to everyone. Once again, please respect our traditions. If you don't like them, tough----go start your own program. The one guy may seem a little angry, but M. Bear, you're condenscension towards him just masks your ego, so in that way I know you're a drunk.
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starstarstarstarstar 		Sobriety
by: Anonymous

I agree with the person who wrote about OUR first tradition. When it states " OUR common welfare should come first. Personal recovery depends upon AA unity." Who is "Our".They are talking about the ALOHOLIC silly. There is Methamphetamine Anonymous, Cocaine Anonymous, Marijuana Anonymous, Narcotics Anonymous for those afflicted with drug abuse. Greedy people with huge egos that feel " entitled" and have no respect for the alcoholic trying to get sober in the spiritual program of Alcoholics Anonymous. If you read the NA pamphlet " Recovery and Relapse" you will find that it states " However, many addicts were going down the road of degradation because they were unable to IDENTIFY with the alcoholic in AA. The addict could identify with some of the same symptoms, but not at the DEEPER LEVEL where empathy plays a healing role for all people who suffer from addiction.
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starstarstarstarstar 		Is There a Difference?
by: Mr. Bear

OK, Member, you got me there. That was not at all well articulated, was it? I usually do much better than that. Let's see if I can be more clear.

You ask, angrily, why you have to hear about drugs in your AA meetings. The point I tried, unsuccessfully, to make, is simply that alcohol is a drug, drinking is using and you are a drug addict who doesn't use any more (one would suppose.)

You can't help but hear about at least one drug in your meetings, and you can't help but hear about the 12 Step treatment of the disease of addiction.

AA doesn't like to use these words, though, and has different words to talk about the same it, but the reality is that it is fundamentally all the same.

So, if you're dealing with addiction to one drug already, what's the big deal about other drugs being discussed? After all, "Our liquor was but a symptom." (Alcoholics Anonymous, pg 64)

Cocaine, heroin, alcohol, methamphetamine, marijuana, etc. are only symptoms of an underlying malady. We use these drugs and others, alone or in combinations, trying to fix our ailment. They work for a time, maybe a long time, but in the end they become a problem in and of themselves.

At that point, if we are lucky, we land in a place where we can start to recover, and, if we are fortunate enough, we arrive there ready for recovery.

So, friend, in closing I leave with you this: May you never find yourself in such a position that you have to learn the hard way the truth being shared with you today.

Warmest regards,
Mr. Bear
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starstarstarstarstar 		AA
by: Member of AA

Dear Mr. Bear I have no idea what you are talking about. Common sense tells you that ALCOHOLICS Anonymous is for the person addicted to ALCOHOL. If you would try and read the AA pamphlet "The AA group" it states in there very clearly that AA does not know what to do about drug addiction. So maybe you can talk to your sponsor about that. Cheers:)
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starstarstarstarstar 		Sobriety
by: Anonymous

Bill Wilson defined "sobriety" as freedom from alcohol. That is our primary purpose. All other addictions, including cocaine, crack, pain meds, food, gambliing, sex, etc. etc. etc. are problems that should be dealt with in other programs. WE ARE NOT THE SAVIORS OF THE WORLD. What egos we have to think that we can help everyone. If a non-drug addict alcoholic walks into and AA meeeting, our responsibility is share our experience with ALCOHOL so that he is able relate his own experiences with it. It is the KEY to AA. If you want to start a new program called Additct Anonymous, please do so, but please respect the traditions of AA. OUR COMMON WELFARE COMES FIRST. PERSONAL RECOVERY DEPENDS UPON AA UNITY.
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starstarstar 		Member of AA's Question
by: Mr. bear

Dear "Member of AA:"

Let's see if we can clear up your confusion. We'll begin with ethanol, that is, alcohol for drinking. It's the substance that you were using to get loaded. Look it up in a dictionary, any English dictionary, and you will discover that it is a drug.

Surprised? You shoudn't be. Common sense alone should tell you that if it gets you loaded, it's a drug. Common sense alone should also tell you that if it gets you loaded and you can't stop using it, then you're addicted to it; that is, you're an addict.

If your only addiction was to this one thing, then you are fortunate, indeed. Very few of us are that lucky. Most of us are afflicted with an obsessive/addictive personality. We call it the "disease of addiction." We are prone to any number of obsessions, compulsions, addictions that range from gambling to shopping, sex to over-eating, video games to you name it.

Alcoholics are at particular risk of becoming addicted to prescription drugs. Opiate pain relievers, sedatives and hypnotics for insomnia and anti-anxiety medications are prescribed for alcoholics (and other addicts) all the time. They act in the body much the same as alcohol does.

The risk of these new addictions is exacerbated in AA. Most AAs figure out soon enough that it's not a good idea to use street drugs, if only because it may lead them back to drinking. Prescriptions, however, are all too easily seen as something different, something harmless. After all, if your doctor gave them to you, they must be safe, right?

AA and many of its members continue to maintain the fiction that there is a substantial and significant difference between the alcoholic and other drug addicts, between alcoholism and other addictions. Therein lies the danger. Heck, they don't even want to call it a drug, an addiction, an addict.

So, Member of AA, I guess that doesn't really answer your question for you. Sorry. At least now you have a good topic to cover with your sponsor and/or friends in the Fellowship. Cheers!
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starstarstarstarstar 		Special
by: Anonymous

So can the very special, different and unique alcoholic-addict please explain to me our secondary purpose in AA today? I need to understand why I must hear about drugs in AA today.
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starstarstarstarstar 		Identification
by: Member of AA

To think every alcoholic that goes to AA can identify with drug use is very selfish on the part of the drug addict in AA today. I am not sure why a drug user in AA feels that honesty, patience, tolerance and acceptance doesn't apply to them? I am an alcoholic... all I want to hear about is your experience with alcohol so that I can identify with you.... so I don't feel alone. I want to hear from you how you got sober..... I listen to another alcoholic..... I don't listen to an "alcoholic-addict" if there is such a thing. I didn't just drink to wait for the drugs to show up. Alcoholism is a whole different world. I just don't understand why the dual addicted person feels so strongly that I want to hear about drug use in an AA meeting.... I just don't understand.
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starstar 		Is There a Difference?
by: Mr. Bear

So, you ask if there is any difference between an alcoholic and a "drug addict."

Yes, of course there is. Then again, no, there isn't.

Confused? Consider these two animals, a German Shepherd and a St. Bernard. Is there any difference between them? Yes, of course. Then again, no.

They are both dogs, are they not? In some ways there are great differences to take into consideration when dealing with them. At the same time, there are far more similarities than differences, and in many ways, they can be treated the same.They're categorized members of the same family, after all.

Just as dog is a category, so is addict. Just as there are all different kinds of dogs in the world, so also there are all different kinds of addicts. In some important ways, they have to be treated differently. In other important ways, though, they are, and should be, treated the same.

So, the answer is not as simple as "yes, there's a difference" or "no, there's not." Bottom line, go where you are comfortable and can get your recovery

BTW, I've read, in AA literature, some old-time newspaper articles that used the phrases "liquor addict" and "alcoholic addict." Notice the lack of a slash or hyphen. In this case, "alcoholic" is an adjective, not a noun. The noun is "addict" and alcoholic is the adjective that describes the kind of addict.

I hope this helps someone.
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starstarstarstarstar 		Alcoholism and Addiction
by: Anonymous

I've sat in entirely too many AA meetings with "recovered" alcoholics who have not drank alcohol in many years, but who are now ripped out of their heads on pills and other prescription medication, self-medicating on drugs that are not illegal. You're either sober or you're not. Then there are dual addicts like me who are alcoholic AND drug addicted. Why does AA find it so much more distasteful to hear me mention drug use in relation to my alcoholism, than listening to others talk about lying, stealing, unsafe and immoral sexual practices, abusing spouses and children, endangering others' lives, and many other sordid behaviors as it relates to alcoholism? What if I am just as offended by hearing about the time one of them beat their spouse and children in a drunken rage, or the time another one hit an innocent child on a bicycle while driving DUI, or the time one of them burned down a church in a blackout? Addiction is addiction is addiction, no matter what the substance, and the recovery is the same.

The same AA members who don't want to hear drug use mentioned will read about it in the stories in the AA Big Book, especially in the story "Acceptance Was The Answer", which is the same story that contains the acceptance passage that many AA members feel is as relevant as the information contained in the first 164 pages. The physician who wrote this story writes explicitly of taking and shooting pep pills, mentions drugs in exact milligrams, mentions by name Demerol, morphine, codeine and Percodan, and describes in detail putting a needle in his vein and squirting the stuff in. Then he writes, "Giving up alcohol alone was not enough for me; I've had to give up all mood- and mind-affecting chemicals in order to stay sober and comfortable." This is just one example, for you will find drug use discussed in other stories in the Big Book.

Why is is taboo to discuss drug use at an AA meeting when we read about it in the AA literature?

"There is a principle which is a bar against all information, which is proof against all arguments and which cannot fail to keep a man in everlasting ignorance -- that principle is contempt prior to investigation." -- Herbert Spencer. I learned that at AA.

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starstarstarstarstar 		I agree---pretty simple
by: Anonymous

Not sure why thi s so hard for people to grasp. Singleness of purpose. In AA we deal with alcoholism. In NA they deal with drug addiction. Don't care if YOU think they're the same. Bill W. defined sobriety as "freedom from alcohol". Please! Please, read thr Tradition! And if you work in a treatment center please quit sending us folks who say they aren't drunks. How do you expect NA to grow if you're not sending the drug addicts there?
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starstarstarstarstar 		So simple we miss it
by: Anonymous

A person who cannot control or moderate his drinking or guzzling of alcohol.... Might be an alcoholic. A person who shoots heroin or snorts cocaine... Or tweaks on methamphetamines... Or tries bath salts.... Might be a drug addict. Two different programs. Two different solutions. Two completely different worlds. We cannot even sponsor each other.... No shared experiences.
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starstarstarstarstar 		more
by: Anonymous

I also think that "being of maximum service to God and others" means that we have the compassion and courage to help folks with problems other than alcohol to find their solution. Have you ever ran into folks in AA meetings who go in and out and in and out over and over but never drink when they go out? Maybe they are alcoholic, but I wonder if the obsession to use drugs will ever be removed until they search out a spiritual program which deals with drug addiction.
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starstarstarstarstar 		Won't dumb down
by: Anonymous

I didn't get sober in AA by being all things to all people. I found another drunk with shared experiences. Why are addicts so offended by keeping AA for alcoholics.... Our sole purpose? There is no addict that can help me stay sober... I have never done drugs. Before addicts start tearing apart our program.... They should read more about it. Read the literature... " nor are we expected to know what to do about drug addiction". That is in " The AA Group". Alcoholism all by itself is fatal... So can we alcoholics have a little respect? I for one won't move over... I am not a door mat, and I do not bow and scrape. The BB was written for me and thousands of other ALCOHOLICS to give us hope and a way out with explicit directions on how to recover from alcoholism. If you have a beef with that..... You are in the wrong program.
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starstarstarstarstar 		Our Singleness of Purpose
by: Anonymous

Our singleness of purpose is a foundation upon which our society is built. Bill W. and the rest of our early members clearly differentiated between alcoholism and drug addiction. Read Bill's commments in "Problems Other Than Alcohol" pamphlet. He states that as far as AA is concerned, sobriety is "freedom from alcohol". Please read your tradtitions and if you sponsor people, make sure they also read them. They are the principles which keep our society together.
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starstarstarstarstar 		Lighten Up!
by: Anonymous

A drug is a drug is a drug. Alcohol is a drug. If I am an alcoholic, I am an addict and this is why I refuse to get my shorts in a wad if someone happens to let it slip that drugs other than alcohol are part of the story.

It is your experience, the depth of shame you carry, and what happened in the midst of your use with which I identify, not that you shot heroin and I guzzled booze.

If I say I cannot help an "addict" I diminsh the common ground upon which we stand; that of mutuality, the experience beneath the drug use.
And what about the many "non chemically" based addictions? Read the research, folks. Gambling, sex, spending, and more.

Before you go and try to distinguish between addictions, best read the evidence and look for what we all have in common in our struggles and triumphs.
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starstarstarstarstar 		In response to "putting it out there"
by: Anonymous

In one of our meetings around here we have a very dedicated literature person who has gone to great lengths to declare that each meeting is autonomous...... and in this particular meeting we do not discuss problems other then alcohol...... That means we follow our Group CONCIOUS. The format. And we follow the AA Preamble. He puts a little literature in the center of each table and he has read and knows the literature very well. We also have a member who goes right up to an addict to shake hands and introduce himself, and while shaking his hand asks him flat out " Are you a real alcoholic?" We finally have a wonderful AA meeting in this town. The addicts do not come to this meeting. They have graciously allowed us to have one open meeting for alcoholics who are serious, desperate and done and scared as hell. And so it is a cllimate of growth..... Spiritual growth.
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starstarstarstarstar 		Putting it out there.
by: Anonymous

When you are in an AA meeting and you are listening to an addict share, do you stop that person and remind them of what we are trying to do here? Or do you not say anything because it is considered cross talk? I feel like I am at a crossroad when this is happening .....Should I feel Love and Tolorance? And respect the rights and privileges of other people? OR Should I feel To Thine Ownself be True and I am not a door mat. Any suggestions here? Please.
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starstarstarstarstar 		NA is for addicts, AA is for alcoholics
by: Anonymous

I never did drugs. At parties I liked it when the druggies got a little drunk because they would run off to do drugs - leaving me alone with all the booze. I could get smashed and pass out, alone. If you can relate to that, you are an alcoholic. If you can't, I don't know what you are. It has been a long time so now I go to AA because occasionally I meet an actual alcoholic who needs help. I have no idea why someone who isn't an alcoholic would even want to be in AA. I mean, damn, it says Alcoholic in the name, it isn't the Jaycees. In terms of my helping 95% of the drug addicts or whatever they are at AA meetings? Forget it. I try to steer them to a mental health counselor or NA as the case may be. Someone who actually understands their problem. As a note, I have read the NA Basic Text, it is like the 12 and 12 - no solid step instructions, no 'Into Action', all talk.
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starstarstarstarstar 		We do one thing well...
by: Anonymous

SHOEMAKER, STICK TO YOUR LAST! Out of Bills mouth for we in AA to keep our egos in check and not presume because found an answer, we can fix every body.
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starstarstarstarstar 		What would the master do?
by: Anonymous

Well in my opinion the alcoholic that said " What would the master do?" made a human error....... Playing God.
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starstarstarstarstar 		Yes I am addicted to alcohol.
by: Anonymous

I am addicted to alcohol . I cannot have one drink. I have no control once I start drinking. I suffer from alcoholism. Not an addiction to drugs. So can someone please explain why I sit in AA meetings with a singleness of purpose.... And listen to people addicted to drugs talk about methamphetamines and cocaine? Shame on those people. Why is it being accepted by alcoholics?
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starstarstarstarstar 		Practice the principles
by: Anonymous

You can't have a spiritual awakening if you're living a lie. Anyone who tells a non-alcoholic drug addict that it is ok for them to attend AA is doing them a huge disservice. But, it seems like all treatment centers do it. Their motivation may be right, but the result will not be good. As AA members though, we should be willing to do everything we can to help whoever comes to us---even as far as taking someone to an NA meeting. We are to practice these principles of love and tolerance of others everywhere.
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starstarstarstarstar 		Are you addicted to alcohol?
by: Anonymous

Are you addicted to alcohol? Then you're an addict. Period.
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starstar 		Great difference from social aspect...
by: kleenandserene@aim.com

I have 25 years in AA with 17 years of continuous sobriety. I also go to NA occasionally and for 4 years was very active in NA. I believe in both fellowships. They are not the same. Anyone who says they are is ignorant and knows little about either fellowship. Drug addiction and alcoholism are close in the end physical and social behavior BUT not the same. "physical allergy and mental obsession"... all human bodies and brains react pretty much the same to drugs like cocaine, heroin, and meth. Do any of them long enough and with increasing amounts and you will have an addict 100% of the time. Alcohol does not work that way. The point in the Doctor's opinion is that "alcoholics" are different and they have been proven to be.
Drugs are illegal and addicts are criminals almost all the time. Alcoholics are not in almost all cases.
NA isn't about drugs of any particular king and "alcohol is a DRUG". NA is about the DISEASE of ADDICTION and in most well run NA meetings you will never hear any talk of any particular drug.
Treatment centers started this "drug is a drug is a drug" to DE-stigmatize drug addiction and legitimize dumping their clients into AA.
If they had encouraged membership in NA and had NA meeting in their centers their recidivism rate would probably be less than 90%.
ODAT.
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starstarstarstarstar 		Kitchen meetings
by: Anonymous

When I go to meetings....you know who is alcoholic and who is not. We alcoholics would go out for coffee after the meeting. We all decided that it would be nice to have a meeting with just us alcoholics.... So I offered my kitchen. Everyone shows up ( on time ...lol). We do get newcomers that come. They don't have to listen to an addict share about drugs... It's just not there!!! One has 4 months and one has 6 months. It is very nice.
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starstarstarstarstar 		drug addicts believe they are alcoholics because...
by: Anonymous

In AA meetings, I've heard many drug addicts share about how when they went to rehab or detox, their counselors asked them if they had a problem with alcohol and they said "no." Then the counselor convinced them that they were alcoholic because if they drank then they would use drugs.

It is often not the drug addict's fault that they come to AA. Their counselors tell them that alcoholism and drug addiction are the same thing.

I think that the problem of drug addicts in AA is caused by the detox and rehab programs.

Anyone know of any kitchen meetings in the New York area?
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starstarstarstarstar 		"Kitchen Meetings"
by: Anonymous

When a non-alcoholic attends an open AA meeting, he identifies as a respectful visitor. He just listens and usually gets something out of the meeting. The drug addict (non-alcoholic) attends an open AA meeting and must lie and identify as an alcoholic so that he can share. He really believes he has something important to say that we all need and want to hear.....Lol. The addict assumes everyone in the room has done drugs at one time or another. This is self centered and self seeking thinking. This is simply not true. If the addict only knew that the alcoholic "shuts down" when he is sharing. The alcoholic does not even hear what the addict is saying. Only an addict hears another addict. Just like an alcoholic only hears another alcoholic. Hence Alcoholics Anonymous and Narcotics Anonymous. So if the drug addict in an AA meeting could just listen and not share...we might have some growth in AA today. I know that I attend a lot of home meetings..alcoholics only. AA meetings by word of mouth only. Aka "kitchen meetings". That might be the way of the future. The addicts have shot themselves in the foot. The AA meetings today are chaotic, just as much chaos as NA. The primary purpose is long gone thanks to the addict in AA. I have a kitchen meeting..about 6 to 10 alcoholics once a week show up. It is so cool...we all talk about how we are doing it....one day at a time...how to live in the solution with a higher power as our guide. It doesn't get any better then that!
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starstarstarstarstar 		Why?
by: Anonymous

Why do drug addicts pretend they are alcoholics?
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starstarstarstarstar 		If you need to hear a drug story feel a part of
by: Alex Y.

If you need to hear a drug story in order to feel like you belong in an AA meeting, then you are in the wrong meeting. It's that simple. If you can't identify with the story told by a "real" alcoholic, then you probably ain't one.
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starstarstarstarstar 		To "There is No Difference"
by: Anonymous

The Nature of my alcoholism is that it is fatal. So why does the drug addict go to AA meetings and share about drugs? So unmindful of the Alcoholics welfare, its nauseating. It is your attitude of indifference that separates the meetings of today. The addict must think he is something pretty special and different "It's part of my story." to blow by the traditions( and all the suffering alcoholics in the room)....especially the first tradition. It states that the common welfare of alcoholics should come first. My personal welfare depends upon the unity if alcoholics. So why would you want to shove drug-a-logs down an alcoholics throat in AA meetings? If you have any respect for the the alcoholic trying to get sober, go get "clean" somewhere else......you have a lot of programs to choose from....the alcoholic does not.
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starstarstarstarstar 		7th tradition
by: Carolyn C

I went to an out of town meeting the other day, and when they passed the basket they read in the format " and we ask that only alcoholics contribute". I thought that was cool.
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starstarstarstarstar 		Detoxes & rehabs
by: Anonymous

If AA World Services (or whoever the powers that be are) were serious about alcoholics helping alcoholics, they could request FIRMLY that workers in detoxes and rehabs not tell people who are primarily drug addicts that they are alcoholics.

I think the detoxes and rehabs believe that AA is the most stable and helpful program (which it used to be), so they try hard to convince people with drug problems that they belong in AA. It seems that this is how the problem started in the 1970s or 1980s - with detox and rehab workers telling everybody that they are alcoholics.

Now that the money has been flowing in, the AA program has become dependent on having the $$ coming from alcoholics, drug addicts, and every other kind of person who stumbles into AA.
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starstarstarstarstar 		Diluted Meetings
by: Cher H...38 years

I go to meetings with a high resolve to carry the message of hope and recovery. The AA message to the alcoholic. Going to meetings today for a recovered alcoholic is a practice in futility and unhappiness. The supposed meetings of AA, the lack of desperation and not being done, leads me to believe that the AA of today is a sad characterization of what it once was. The recovery of alcoholism, the allergy of the body to alcohol, the obsession of the mind to ingest alcohol, caused by a spiritual malady. Its progressive, it's fatal, and there is no cure. I recovered through rigorous honesty, willingness to admit to another alcoholic that my life was unmanageable. I wanted to live, and I would go to any lengths to recover from this hopeless state of mind, body, and spirit. I wanted what alcoholic number three saw in Bill and Dr. Bob. A humility as a result of a CONCIOUS CONTACT with a Higher Power that they could give the credit to. Playing God ( giving myself the credit) almost killed me. So my Dear Alcoholic friends as we in each meeting honor the 12 traditions beguided by the 12 steps, respect deeply our format ( our group conscience) for there is but one ultimate authority as he may express himself in our group conscience. There is no debate... It's a done deal. So let us in gratitude, we alcoholics, accept OUR gift.
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starstarstarstarstar 		Starts at the top?
by: Anonymous

Maybe AA World Services does not want to keep drug addicts out of AA for financial reasons. The bigger the fellowship, the more money.

I am a real alcoholic and feel very discouraged by the presence of so many non-alcoholics in AA. After a number of twenty-fours and attendance at many meetings, I've come to the conclusion that the majority of people attending AA meetings are NOT alcoholics.

Most groups seem unable to deal with the problem. Why is AA World Services so silent on this matter?
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starstarstarstarstar 		There is a differance between An alcoholic and Drug Addict
by: Anonymous

As it was explained to me by a Dr. that has treated me and has done her own research on the above is as follows." you can lock anyone in a closet with cocaine and force them to use it and they will become addicted to it.Put anyone in a closet with alcohol and only an alcoholic will be addicted to alcohol". Its how the individuals body responds to the alcohol.The brain can be trained to depend on other drugs.But only an alcoholic will mentabolize the alcohol diffrently and have a diffrent reaction than one that doesnt have the physical predisposition to alcoholism.Alcoholism is a disease.Drug addiction is not.Alcohol is a drug however it does not cause an allergic reaction in a non alcoholic person .Only an alcoholic will have a reaction.
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starstarstarstarstar 		Alkies.... Gotta love em
by: Anonymous

Drug addicts share their drugs.... Alcoholics don't share their bottle ..... Sooo true... Lol
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starstarstarstarstar 		Addicts in AA
by: Anonymous

You don't have to have done any drugs to die from alcoholism.....we are dying just fine without them. There are alot of alcoholics that have not done drugs. But the addict in AA discounts them and their alcoholism.... Saying that there are not many of the pure alcoholics left. Squatters rights?
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starstarstarstarstar 		Primary Purpose
by: Anonymous

Thank you so very much Lindsay T. Maybe you can help me. I am a real alcoholic. I don't know what to do, say, or think when I am in a meeting and the primary purpose is lost. The AA preamble and the format is not respected by the drug addict. I dont know where to channel it in my own program. I just go limp... Because the spirituality gets sucked right out of the room. The common problem...common solution is lost. I was a chronic and hopeless alcoholic. When I asked a person to be my sponsor, she said " I won't be your higher power, you have to get your own.... I have a good program and I will share it with you until then. I won't be your mother...that is the last thing an alcoholic woman needs is another mother. I can't sponsor you if you have done drugs because I have no shared experiences, and that would be doing you a disservice . I only have 7 years and I am soooo grateful for my BB thumper sponsor(the weight and depth). My daughter who is an alcoholic...... Had 3 cardiac arrests last May due to alcoholism. Her drug screen negative....because I asked the doctor. Cirrhosis etc. She is only 35 years old. She made it to AA. She is in a sober living and is the only alcoholic there. I went to see her and went to a local meeting with her. The leader identified as an alcoholic addict.... My heart sank. The leader had 2 years of being " clean and sober". How do you do it? Any suggestions?
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starstarstarstarstar 		Primary purpose.
by: Lindsay T

Who's kiddin who here ? We have a primary purpose to deal with a primary problem. It's simple , if someone approaches you when you are performing with a bottle of Jack Daniels and a gram of cocaine and you can only choose one. Therein lies the answer to what you are. I done lots of drugs when drinking , I also did a lot of other things , so I would be at a different fellowship every night of the week for troubles other than alcohol. I am a straight shooting AA guy , when crushed by the self imposed crisis, before God it was always booze , don't matter what comes afterwards. It's not one big disease, that shut came from a treatment center. Glad it was an alcoholic who 12 stepped me and not an addict, over eater or gambler. Drug addicts DO NOT BELONG IN AA.
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starstarstarstarstar 		The difference between an alcoholic and an addict
by: Anonymous

The difference between the addict and the alcoholic is if you be an alcoholic..... There is a big difference. If you be a drug addict there is no difference.
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starstarstarstarstar 		RECOVERED Alcoholic !!!!
by: Anonymous

There is NO such thing as RECOVERiNG......

We are just 'alcoholics'....OR we are "RECOVERED'.......
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starstarstarstarstar 		There is no difference
by: Anonymous

There is no difference. People think there is and there is not. Just another way to think for some reason we are special or different. The only difference that seperates the meetings is the additudes of indifferance.
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starstarstarstarstar 		AA literature and NA literature
by: Anonymous

In the AA literature "The AA Group" on page 16 it says " The primary purpose of ANY A.A. group is to carry the AA message to alcoholics. Experience with alcohol is ONE thing all AA members have in common. It is misleading to hint or give the impression that AA solves other problems or knows what to do about drug addiction." In the NA literature "Recovery and Relapse" it says "However we knew that many were still going down the road of disillusion , degradation and death because they were unable to identify with the alcoholic in AA. Their identification was at the apparent symptoms and not at the deeper level of emotions or feelings, where empathy becomes a healing therapy for all addicted people.". It also goes on to say "Once an addict always an addict," will no longer be tolerated by either society or the addict himself." But for the alcoholic " once an alcoholic always an alcoholic" will always hold true.
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starstarstarstarstar 		Drug addicts posing as Alcoholics
by: Anonymous

Lol...When we talk about "Our common welfare" who is "Our". They are talking about the alcoholic. My personal recovery depends upon AA unity. The rooms of AA are less intimidating to the drug addict and also less chaotic. The drug addict who is told to identify as an alcoholic to get into AA meetings has started his or her recovery being rigorously dishonest. The drug addict in AA has not grown past being selfish, self centered and self seeking. They want the easier softer way. The drug addict does not respect the house they are in,nor does he really care about the alcoholic and our primary purpose. Some how the drug addict excuses him or herself for bad behavior. Trying to control and manipulate the meetings to be an "all things to all people" meeting. It is very clear to me that the drug addict has not read any of the AA literature, nor has he or she read the BB.
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starstarstarstarstar 		How did he get there?
by: Steve H

The following sort of simplifies the whole matter in my mind (watch out the that thing!). Pray tell or please tell if you are young and have never heard that first ply for assistance. What is Dr. Paul O.'s story doing in the Big Book? What group conscience accepted that? The name of the story was changed alright, from Docter, Alcoholic & Addict to Acceptance Was The Answer however that had to have been done mostly because so very many people remembered the original story for Paul's writing on acceptance. It was not retitled because it was no longer acceptable in AA literature or else the words in the damn story wouldn't be the same! It was not rewritten or hidden in the Big Book and Dr. Paul O. belonged in the AA fellowship until he died in about '05. And as far as I'm concerned, he belongs here still! That's my take on it, at least :)
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starstarstarstarstar 		how
by: Anonymous

when in a meeting of alcoholics anonymous i identify as an alcoholic. when in a meeting of narcotics anonymous i identify as an addict. the litature within aa has been proven to work as well the aa big book. our program is within the "book" not in the meetings alone. if i were to identify within another fellowship than aa,
would this mean that i could not carry the message of recovery? being that i stuck needles in my viens and drank,"is it now that im dualy adiccted?" or is it that these are the things that ive done. there are many reasons why i drank or injusted other substance. im not here within this program to figure out something that is preety abviuos. why i am here is to learn how to live life. if im looking at the simlaritys rather than the differances, i would be spending time on living by princples our program has to offer. if one could please explain to me how practicing princples and minding my own buiesnes, "taints aa" and keeps one from carring the message. thank u for reading my share.
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starstarstarstarstar 		Why do people say alcoholic and drug addict is the same thing?
by: Anonymous

Many people say that if you are a drug addict that you must refrain from even alcohol because alcohol is a drug. If that's true, then how come 99% of people that come to NA drink soda and energy drinks which contain caffeine. Have you forgotten that caffeine is a drug. Most of the people also smoke. Nicotine is a drug. If you addicted to Crystal Meth, which is a highly addictive drug and able to quite, I would think you would be able to have a few beers without going overboard.
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starstarstarstarstar 		Ridiculous
by: Robert H.

I would like to comment on some of the subject matter here. I cannot and will not go into great detail on differences between the addict and the alcoholic as I am currently working on a publication and my thesis which covers some of the topica contained in forum. I would like to state that there are differences bewteen the "addict" and the "alcoholic" yet I challenge the anonymous contributor to look at the cocaine anonymous fellowship which has used the Big Book Of AA as a "basic text" for the recovery of cociane addiction. Therein should lie an open door to the real fundamental differences between "addicts" and "alcoholics". If you are still bewildered, I challenge you look at NA and ask yourself how it is that a member who is addicted to "coke" or "meth" can get clean in a program that was developed for persons addicted to Opiates. Hence the name Narcotics Anonymous. Yes, its true, coke, meth, lsd, pot etc., are not narcotics. Therein lies an open door to undrestanding the true differences between "addicts" and "alcoholics". To say that "AA cant be for everyone or we would all die" is spoken like a fanatic. The solution of recovering from a disease of "addiction" or "alcoholism" has a tremedous amount of ingnorance, egoism and missinformation attacking it through unispired "knowledge" and "watered down" philosophies perpetuated by uneducated members. Let the wisdom of GOD prevail. I love AA and I have a real soft spot in my heart for Na and I have both for Cocaine Anonymous. I choose AA as a fellowship to attend while growing in strenght and wisdom living one day at a time.
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starstarstarstarstar 		fact
by: Anonymous

Alcohol is legal-drugs are not...disese is the same, experience is not...
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starstarstarstarstar 		AA cant be for everyone or we will all die
by: Anonymous

AA is for the Alcoholic only and if were for any problem and truly all inclusive we would have twinkie addicts, sex addicts, drug addicts etc... all groping in the dark because nobody would be there to deliver the exact nature of there malady from actual painful experience which is greatest spiritual gift. I onlt have the ability to help another alcoholic and if I were to tell a addict that I could help I would be lying and in essence playing russian roulette with there life. I have seen addicts kill themselves because they were going to AA and were not hearing a message that could touch that spot deep in their sole and were in essence trying to get a labotomy from a Dentist. I find it egotistical and self centered to tell someone you can help when in reality you can only imagine the persons pain, experience and where they have been. I will not play GOD. I am not sure why people want to make AA for everything when there are 12 step programs for every problem you can think that specifically deals with those problems. If anyone is interested I suggest reading the book "Slaying the Dragon" which is the history of 2000 groups that adopted AA's 12 steps and traditions that failed because they did not stick to their primary purpose. Lets learn a lesson from the history already established so we can see the writing on the wall. I am a Alcoholic and I can only help another Alcoholic. I do not know why all the treatment centers tell addicts to come to AA when they can not even become members. Alcoholism is chronic and pathological drinking not drinking while you are wating for the drugs to show up. AA is for the Alcoholic and that is enough so lets stick to are primary purpose. Frothy emotional appeal seldom suffices. The message which can interest and hold these alcoholic people must have depth and weight.( from the doctors opinion) AA does not and cannot be for everybody. If all the addicts that come to AA went to NA or elsewhere there would have a strong fellowship with a common bond. Per the pamphlet Excerpts from Problems other then Alcohol the addict can attend meetings for spiritual help only should not share. People need stop trying to fit their problems into the AA box. I liked my booze strong and certainly need my AA meetings strong so I have have the truth about me which I cannot tell myself delivered to me anonymously from another alcoholic that has walked through the same Hell I have and that is the only person that can do that.
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starstarstarstarstar 		Thank you god
by: Anonymous

I was google - ing this question just out of curiosity what other people had to say about this. I am a drug addict and I am an alcoholic. So do I go to both? yeah sometimes. But i work my program in AA because I found my truth here. I wasn't able to listen to all the war stories about the drugs because it only allowed me to fantasize more. It did not help me at all. I relapsed after 70 days in NA. I could never get more time than that in that fellowship. Maybe the people who go to NA are strong minded. Maybe i was a weakling. But i do know that I could not keep the dope out of my nose. Obviously I was still suffering from the root of this disease. However it wasn't until I went to a Women's closed AA meeting, that I found the strength i needed to just not pick up a drink or a DRUG one day at a time. i came into AA thinking i wouldnt be accepted because I was a drug user. It was the exact opposite. They loved me until I could love myself. The woman held me when I just wanted to fall. I felt the grace of God in AA. and to this day, NA just isn't the same for me. I feel god's presence in AA. I can sit and relax and feel the sunlight of the spirit enter my heart. Any program that helps to save and change lives is a blessing to me. I have almost 9 months and it's a fucking miracle. AA brought me to God, and I later found out that God brought me to AA. Recovery is amazing. I have a lot of issues and I struggle. I'm struggling right now actually. I feel pain in my heart and I want to act out and be rageful on myself or someone else. But today I know for a FACT that this too shall pass and picking up a bag of dope or a steele reserve is not going to solve my problems. I came to recovery because I just wanted to stop feeling hopeless and miserable. I wanted to get away from drugs and alcohol. But i couldn't do it alone. They told me in AA, if you want to stop drinking or using, and you can't stop starting, you're in the right place. keep coming back. Miracles happen in recovery
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starstarstarstarstar 		Alcohol vs. Drug
by: Anonymous

After 23 years clean and sober, I relapsed. Upon returning to AA and my program (I worked the steps for all but the last of those 23 sober and clean years) I am being mindf**ked by AAers who tell me I can only work step one around alcohol. MY step one says, "Admitted I'm powerless over alcohol, all drugs, people, places, and things and my life had become unmanageable.". Now I'm being told, even though I don't mention drugs in meetings when sharing, that I should attend AA only for alcohol and should go to NA or others to separately address drug addiction. WTF???????!!!!!!!
Page 21 and 22 in big book describe Real alcoholic as using sedatives, etc. To function, "go to work" I.e. Control effects of his/her drinking which is exactly what I did!
AA worked for me for over 20 years and I relapsed only cuz I quit doing the AA work. Now why would fellow alcoholics want to send me to NA and mess with my program???
Rating
starstarstarstarstar 		NA, don't attack oldtimer
by: Anonymous

Old Timer is right, and with his 40 years in AA (as an alcoholic), he has a perfect right to state his opinion.

Only alcoholics become addicted to alcohol. Alcoholics have a physical and mental weakness that causes them to become addicted to alcohol. Anyone who takes enough of a drug will become addicted.

In the Big Book it is explained that the "real alcoholic" will be unable to stop drinking on his/her own, despite the strongest wishes. A person who stops drinking (or drinks very little) and then takes drugs and becomes addicted is not an alcoholic.

I've heard people say in meetings that they belong in AA because alcohol led them to take drugs. This is NOT alcoholism. For me, if I drank alcohol, the danger is that I would continue drinking until I died. I would not switch to drugs, because I don't like drugs.

Recent med. studies show that alcohol is more damaging physically than illegal drugs. We alcoholics have a deadly dangerous disease and we need AA for OUR disease.

Why do the druggies make us feel guilty if we don't let them lie about being alcoholics and take over our program? Alcoholics have poor self-esteem and have too often allowed ourselves and our program to be co-opted by druggies who won't develop their own program.

Rating
starstarstarstarstar 		NA
by: Anonymous

to the guy who says he has 4 decades in AA:
sober: adjective
1.not intoxicated or drunk.
2.habitually temperate, esp. in the use of liquor.
3.quiet or sedate in demeanor, as persons.

clean means complete abstinence from all drugs, including alcohol (which is a drug!). alcohol is just socially acceptable and legal. anyways,there is no difference between being an alcoholic and an addict, it is all the same disease. i identify as an addict because of my spritual and moral illness as well as my most devastating symptom, the obsession (which has been lifted) to use drugs. i was a fifth a day drinker before i started shooting heroin. i can understand why people identify as alcoholics because it is more relatable, but it is all the same thing, and in narcotics anonymous, you would never hear me share my drug of choice at podium level, because i dont want to be drug specific, rather i would like to focus on our similiarities and not our differences. basically, NA took your shit and made it better. oh yea, you didnt even claim to be "sober" for 4 decades, just "in" AA for 4 decades. thats the kind of stuff you hear all the time around those rooms
Rating
starstarstarstarstar 		Blown away
by: Anonymous

I am appalled as I just heard today some AAers say that alcohol is not an addictive substance but drugs are and that's their definition of why their claim that alcoholism is different from drug addiction. I'm an alcoholic (interchangeable word for addict) and use drugs to moderate alcohol use and alcohol to moderate drug use. Alcohol is the oldest known drug there is and the only difference is that alcohol is legal and more readily available. Many AA old-timers blissfully took Valium, bennies, sedatives and thought of themselves as still sober! So sad anyone needs to exclude others from recovery...or from their "special" alcoholics only club.

What would the master do?
Rating
starstarstarstarstar 		so few alcoholics in AA
by: Judy

I see in myself why I'm an alcoholic and not a drug addict. I grew up in the 60's when there were lots of drugs around. After I had started drinking at 16, I smoked some pot because my acquaintances were doing it. I HATED pot and loved alcohol. I was so happy when I stopped bowing to social pressure and gave up pot for good in my early 20's. I once tried cocaine and it did nothing for me, so I never tried it again.

But I COULD NOT stop drinking. I was addicted to alcohol.

I don't believe what some "dual addicted" say in AA meetings that because there are so many drugs around in recent decades, there will be no such thing as the "pure" alcoholic anymore.

Now after 25 years of sobriety (thanks to all who helped), I have developed liver disease with stage 2 fibrosis (stage 4 is cirrhosis). Another wall of denial falls down.

I find it sad that there are so few alcoholics in AA. I don't know what to do -- but strengthen my qualifications to try to include more of AA's original message.
Rating
starstarstarstarstar 		agreee with "oldtimer"
by: anti-dilution

When I sponsor someone in AA, I first ask them what is the last mind-altering chemical they would give up. If the answer isn't alcohol, I send them to a drug addict for sponsorship. I could help them to a point but only to a point. Drug addicts are different than alcoholics. According to the big book, 50-75% of those who were members of AA stayed sober in the early days. Today, the Kolendar survey tells us that about 3-5% stay sober for a year. The program is based on the theme: "one alcoholic talking to another alcoholic." That rarely goes on today. When I hear an alcoholic of "my type" at an AA meeting, I feel sustained, nurtured, fed. When a drug addict shares, I may identify with his emotions but not his behavior on any level. Alcohol had a certain effect on me that I didn't get from any other mind-altering chemical. Say that I was sitting at home smoking weed and watching the 11:00 O'Clock news. The reporter announced that a crazed killer was on the loose in my neighborhood. I'd probably double lock my door and push furniture in front of it. If I was drunk, however, and I hear the same newscast, I'd probably step out on my front stoop and call into the night, "Hey! Come and get me, Stupid! Here I am!" Alcohol made me feel stronger, smarter, more handsome, wittier, etc. Drugs didn't do that. When I hear someone share at an AA meeting, I generally can determine whether or not he or she is a drunk. The only people that claim a program called ALCOHOLics Anonymous is not necessarily for alcoholics only are people who are drug addicts and want to justify their attendance. I've never heard an alcoholic say "it's all the same" unless he was hustling a good-looking female addict.
Rating
starstarstarstarstar 		Lets Get Honest
by: Anonymous

The most notible difference between an alcoholic and a drug addict is the bigotry and predjidice in the person responding to the question. Its just that simple. The only other difference I know of is that one is usually in the form of a liquid and the other is a solid. The destruction of the quality of life is the same and the recovery ( abstinence) is the same.
Rating
starstarstarstarstar 		to the old timer
by: Anonymous

When ANYONE ANYWHERE reaches out for HELP I want the hand of AA ALWAYS to be there and for that I am responsible.
Many of use try and figure out the difference between alcoholics and drugs addicts and what I have learned in AA is that Alcohol was just a SYMPTOM. The pain and suffering and the lack of the ability to live normally is where the problem is. Not the substance. It is a spiritual malady. Both the alcoholic and the drug addict suffer from this.
Rating
starstarstarstarstar 		addicts go away
by: old timer


i have 4 decades in AA and thank god
i came in when it was AA and NOT drugs
anonymous.
ive listened to close to 7000-9000
qualifications. and drug addicts are not
alcoholics. they have a totally different
relationship with their drugs than alcoholics
have with booze.
totally different. space here limits my full observation but two main points would be
most qualifications these days by drug
addicts, just say what an alcholic would say
so that they will "belong". it always has
a phoney ring to it. and if you cant tell phoney
in AA, god help you. it's full of fakes now that
its become so public and no longer carries a
stigma like in the old days when only those who
really had to be there were there. it wasnt a sport/fashion/chic cult like it is now.
this is what i know. after years and years of
observation and personal exchanges...
you can be and alcholic, or you can be a drug
addict, BUT YOU CAN NOT BE BOTH...!!!!!!!!!!!!.
every addict who says they are also an alcoholic
slips up and at some point if you are an observant listener, you will hear them spill the TRUTH---that is,they always tell in some form, how they used booze to negotiate, regulate,
all them to expand their drug intake.
THAT makes alcohol in effect, another drug to
them. polyaddiction.
THAT IS NOT ALCOHOLISM.
even the founders who took drugs made note of that. another main point about drug addicts they
brag about staying up for days...not sleeping for days. that is not alcoholism. that is drug
addiction.
.alchoholics are different--they have the same ritual EVERYDAY -- drink, get drunk, pass out. and the AA ritual and rhythm was founded on that
alcoholic behavior. AA was invented to capture 24 hours...and then you start again.
thats why AA can work/ help alcoholics...and that is why drug addicts have such hugh slippage rates.
they want to belong to a.a. becuz they want
not to have the stigma of being drug addict
since AA is not accepted culturally but drug
addiction is still a stigma.well i say BOO HOO!

yes i am angry that you have co-opted and poisoned and destroyed AA so now
real alcholics are now walking into DA which once was AA. and i worry for the real alcholic,
where can they go now that youve tainted AA?
Rating
starstarstarstarstar 		NEED SOLUTION
by: Anonymous

still confuses me again, when i go to AA meetings i never stay and have other things i need to do..yet i feel better after being at a meeting of AA..before i started using drugs, i drank for the way alcohol made me feel, and once i started drinking i did not know how to stop..i'm still really young in my sobriety only 17 mos, first time ever in the program i'm learning more of a new way to live..when i came into the program my addiction for drugs, i feel, overcame my alcoholism..its like drugs were a way of me trying to stop drinking????
Rating
starstarstarstarstar 		Differences-Alcoholics and Drug Addicts
by: Anonymous

I,as a recovered alcoholic in AA,have always known the difference(s) between the two.

Not that one is better than the other,but for starters:

By Nature-Alcoholics are basically loners(introverted normally) and addicts are just the opposite...(extroverted normally).

You can test this for your self by observing the fpllowing:

After an AA meeting is over,alcoholics generally do NOT stand around and have a meeting after the meeting...

They are GONE.

Na meetings?...just the opposite...many will hang around for hours just to be with another addict(or any one,for that matter).

Bill wrote a paper called "Problems other than alcohol"...AA conference approved literature.

Get the long form....it has more details in it.

I have(BTGOG)35 yrs of sobriety.

Had I come into AA and heard people speaking about drug addiction or any other addiction,I would thoroughly have been confused and frightened.

I came to AA because...well,the title(for one thing.)

I abused Alcohol and they did as well.

They found a solution and I needed one.

It is also true that there is no such thing as dual addicted....because dual means two.

I discovered I had at least 22 other addictions which counters the term DUAL for me.

Please do NOT misunderstand me.

I am NOT denegrating the addict....not at all.

I sponsor addicts as well...once I get them past the dual nonsense,they can see their addiction very clearly....and BTGOG,these addicts have stayed clean and happy for upwards of 30 yrs.

An alcoholic drugs "ALCOHOLICALLY",but an addict can NEVER drink alcoholically...his tolerance for both substances is NOT as hight as that of the alcoholic.

So!...

I would like to have feedback on my experiences with both.

Thanks for reading this far.

God Bless.

Friend of Bill W.



Rating
starstarstarstarstar 		response to your response
by: cindy t.

just wanted to thank you so much for your answer, when i was reading it i feel like i had a spiritual experience, just relating to everything you said and how you explained to me and knowing that someone out there actually understands me, helps me to hold my head up a little higher everyday..thanks again and also for this awesome website...

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